March 13, 2014 at 2:48 pm #547
Here people can discuss what is working and what is not.March 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm #550
I think a good letter is important. I also think a bad letter can hurt more than a good one can help. Judges are educated and want to read well written letters. This includes not only content but the quality, spelling and grammar. Get help if writing isn’t a strength for you.March 13, 2014 at 4:23 pm #551
Yes Ken, that is correct. Recently I have started assisting students in writing their letters with both content help and grammar. You are correct that thease Judges are educated and they also have a tough job. On one hand they have to try and see the value in giving the average person an unrestricted pistol license and on the other hand try and keep these licenses out of the hands of people less responsible. I know we all want the unrestricted and I assure you that I always do my best for our students. With that said not everyone should have the unrestricted license without showing that they understand the responsibility, liability and show competency. I have long said that everyone that wants these licenses should have more than the average training so that they grasp the reality and the awesome responsibility that is involved. The importance of the letter adn portfolio can not be stressed enough.March 13, 2014 at 5:15 pm #554
This is a vital step in getting your permit. The judge whomever he or she may be will be going over in their mind why should I give this person a permit? What has he or she done that causes them first of all to stand out in my mind and second of all in good faith give them the go ahead. The wording is extremely important. Because after all the judge is giving their stamp of approval for a permit. Which will change the life of the individual and the individuals family forever.March 14, 2014 at 12:58 am #559
Dave C- I couldn’t agree more on the letter- ( I can’t resist Dave- you spelled “and” wrong in your last sentence). I was successful in getting an unrestricted license along with my wife- We followed all the advise you gave us and it worked. I would say that it is a total package that is necessary for the judge to make a fair/ solid and confident decision. Lousy body work on a hot rod gives you a lousy paint job no matter how talented the painter. I would not state anything like this in your letter- “I have been in some situations over the past few years that were close calls and I wish I had the added protection of a fire arm” – you can think it but don’t say it to the judge. The reason I would not say this is because the judge may think to himself- if this guy had a pistol license that I approved- he would have possibly shot and killed someone over the past few years- not good! Instead- try something like this- “With all the home invasions, robberies and shootings on the news, I would like to be able to protect my home, my family and my business interests”. Your kinda saying the same thing but stating it differently. Great references as well is important-( I understand they run a background check on the references as well- not sure if this is true). If it is true- your references can blow the deal for you. When your letter is done- ask someone to read it. Does it sound good and flow? Does it warrant an unrestricted carry license? If you were the judge and your name was on the line- would you be confident handing a loaded pistol to the applicant to walk around with at their will? What a responsibility on the part of the judge!!! If your answer to that is yes- you have written a kick ass letter! Who cares how many applicants he/she denies before your application and who cares how many he denies after yours- MAKE YOURS COUNT! DamMarch 14, 2014 at 3:46 am #560
Right on the money as usual Damon. You and I spent a few hours talking about the importance of the process. I honestly feel that the letter/portfolio is part of the application process and that many get refused because they do not make the please to the judge.
?If you want more license you need to show more reasons”, simple as that. The Judges don’t have to give the unrestricted license to you so you have to make the plea. If any of you know the secret of making people do things for you, it is to empower them. Make them feel stronger, better and somehow more important.
Yeah Damon, I always do the “adn” thing.March 20, 2014 at 1:08 pm #645
I had the portfolio with a well crafted letter. I went in front of the Judge to appeal. I was able to defend my position, yet I was still denied. If a Judge has an agenda, you are not going to have an easy time of it. IF you have a reasonable Judge, it is WELL WORTH your time. The main reason is that by doing your due diligence, you are able to learn more of your responsibilities as a gun owner. And unfortunately, you will learn how inept our legal system is. This is not said with sour grapes!
One only has to read Penal Code 400 and a few select cases like Kolchasky, Kaplan, and Theuer to fully understand. A “for instance” would be: The appeals court can over rule a Judge if their decision is “Arbitrary or Capricious”. Um, someone in the legal system should really look up the definition of arbitrary, and what a Judge is. “Arbiter”. Its a decision made by a Judge. So ANY ruling can be overturned, if these legal eagles would read a dictionary? Penal Code 400 gives the issuing agent (Judges in our case) “Broad discretion” to decide. AKA Capricious. With the definition “Proper Cause” being absent in the Penal Code, the Judges have elected to define “Proper Cause” based on the 1980 Klenosky Case. (<span style=”font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; line-height: 115%;”>demonstrate a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession) in which the COURT WAS NOT EVEN TRYING TO DEFINE “Proper Cause”.</span>
You will learn a lot about our legal system. How inane statements made in one case, can disrupt the lives and tie up many people in court for many years. This is why it is VITALLY important to make sure you know WHO EACH person is, when its time to vote. Its our civic duty to do so. They rule your lives!
My next rant will be on the virtues of the unSAFE act…I suggest reading that to see how it could possibly impact YOU and YOUR pistol permit! With renewal every 5 years, the ability of Judges to restrict or rescind licenses at his discretion, we MAY HAVE TO face having to show “Proper Cause” all over again. This time, the judge you face may not be as Gun Friendly.May 28, 2014 at 10:04 am #746
To all that read this forum. I want to thank David and Roger for helping me in the process
to get my carry conceal permit. I was approved for my carry permit in Onondaga County
on May 16th. I have purchased my !st hand gun yesterday. I have purchased a Clock
23 gen-3 in a .40 cal. Went to the range and did very well for the 1st time shooting the
clock. I have taken all the courses that Shooters Haven had. Cant wait to take the
PA trip and take the shooting classed that are coming up.Thanks again .
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